Eurotic TV - General Discussion

I'd prefer to be schematic and I will try to give you an exaustive answer. Some words will be in bold to get evidenced, it doesn't mean shout. Anyway if there is some point you need to deepen, just let me know, it's late and it's weekend so I know something could slip out.

1.Firstofall I think I have the right to put in my blacklist whoever I want and because of whatever reason, it's my baby, it's my blacklist, a blacklist of a viewer, a simple viewer, maybe with some kind of influence (I know, I am a bit presumptuous), but it's always my thought, not a goverment official statement. It's like beller stats. I name the listed girls, I give reasons why, you have the right to agree or disagree. Sorry, but you haven't the right to tell me even what I should post about. Is here still freedom of speech or not? Just let me know.

2.You made Kristina example, I think that her small presence in etvgirls.com was minimal, marginal and not peculiar of her stint at ETV.
Elmar did many premium shows before her first nightshows and she couldn't be compared to the girls I have named. And let's not forget etvgirls.com was far different from ETVGold-ETVShow project, the point is webshows have been the core business since that project has been launched. Since Elmar did many premiums before her first nightshow appearance (and if I remember correct, but I could fail, it's late, she did almost nothing in her first NS appearance), all issues about shyness, being confortable and so on aren't reliable anymore (never reliable to me). Elmar soon showed she was ready for a nightshow but she preferred to gain extra money with premiums, because this was the purpose she has been made from management.They wanted to re-vitalize a dead business putting the newbies into that. Now she isn't a newbie anymore, so she could be dumped to TV. This features weren't in 2008, comparison with girls like Carmen doesn't fit too.

3.I have the right to criticize TV shows even I haven't ever called, and of course I also have the right to criticize webshows, even if I have never bought one, because, this is the main point, webshows misappropriate assets from TV shows. Maybe it's hard because we speak different languages, but I have the right to criticize both TV and web, my critics to webshows are legitimated also because webshows impact negatively to tv shows. They are two related worlds. It's impossible to talk about the former without talking about the latter too. Same models, same staffers, same studios, same people who send sms, same everything. And I would add even same viewers (this would always be the funniest part of the story). When I talk about assets misappropriation I talk just about that. The point is they haven't put the same effort they put for webshows in TV shows. But of course they failed. I have watched some premium shows (even some of most claimed here) and I could point none of them deserved even one credit. None. Nightshows, even often bad, are basically hotter that every premium show ever aired. Do you know why? Because of molvanian law that doesn't allow to produce porn content, even HvB admitted they often are borderline. They still live rent from the past, from the good old days in vector videos (maybe not so good when Janine appears). I could add quality level of TV show has been improved in last two weeks, maybe because even Ivo has realized there was some problem about that and he knows webshows would die without TV incomes and shopcase.
Anyway, I repeat, I have the right to criticize everything, even Galileo's assumptions about universe. Don't make me play the intellectual who citates Voltaire.

4.About my blacklist: I had to choose this term because the italian term (paracula) is untranstalable in english, anyway this list feature girls who act in different ways for first class and economic, I had just pointed Elmar was on the right way to be erased from that list, so my last morning post was of appreciation and the names in the list aren't permanent. Just one example, Mashiara has never been in that list, even though I don't like many things about her, but she makes no differences and gives her best. She has been consistant. And I appreciate that, I have pointed even last morning.

5.Blacklist is not an insult at all, neither direct nor indirect ("indirect insult" is nothing than a rethorical, insult is direct by definition, just allow me and I would show my best ) and I think it has sense because there are girls who don't work (as you say) to keep the channel and fta shows alive. Respect has two features in my mind: firstofall it is mutual and then is something you have to gain, you don't have in absolute. Blacklisted girls, Alice (the chairwoman, because she did even some lectures in eroticism in Carrie style), Jade and Rose (the vice-presidents aka The Girls In Balaclava), Mimi (false as her boobs) Tara (the empty freezing cell) don't work to keep alive the fta show at all. They were unrespectful versus TV viewers. So they won't ever gain my respect (of course as ETV models, we are always talking about that, not about their private life). Elmar, as I have already pointed, has been on the right way to be removed from that list. I usually give Caesar what is Caesar's. Talking about pencil and eraser was a way to ackowledge that. What I ask isn't "to show off for free" (one more time you use same ETVShow arguments), even though we are always talking about an erotic channel, not about a cheesy chat, so this request would be even legitimate, what I ask is consistant attitude in both worlds. There are many models who act consistantly both in TV and in web and there's nothing to discuss about that. What I ask is stop hypocrisy, if Rose or Jade say they are shy on TV and then they act as camgirls on web I feel offended by them, they had no respect to viewers (not-members people), so why viewers should respect them? Were you here when Polascan discovered there was "Miss Shyness" Inga at Flirt4Free in 2007? Do you remember about the reaction here? It's the same thing, the one difference is now is always ETVShow. Do you remember how Ira and Brown were treated about the failed (as usual) webshow? They are the first at do not giving respect to their employees. They took advantage about two young girls (Brown is probably the youngest in the whole roster) and made them as scapegoat. They did the same even with Carrie, because it was functional to them in that moment. I didn't like at all Carrie's attitude but I liked even less how she has been treated from management, another easy scapegoat. Anyway, carrie out of nightshows could be a good deal. What I gonna do in their position? Simply I would walk away, as many girls already did. And I hope Kristina too. ETV isn't the one and only job on the earth. No job is forever, DB once said. Even Kaleya, even Sabrina (that's incredible) have found their way outside. I haven't been a journalist since the beginning, I started as marketing accountant and then I changed. Many former ETV girls have found their way outside ETV and now they are happy. Even though ETV is as a "scarlet letter" in Molvania and ETV looks like a lodge who binds there forever.

6.About money and its value, you put in the same cauldron many different things, I don't like minestrone, even though it's a typical italian dish. So let me know, if I hadn't Sky or Mediaset Premium (italian operators, Sat and DTT) subscription I couldn't talk about football? I accept and agree the general principle but this doesn't apply to ETVShow since they haven't been ever fair. ETV show core business is not offering a good TV show but is to pluck from a short number of customers (rich customers, who also have reserved deal to buy a large amount of credits) till the last feather. They also brainwashed the customers with all that bullshit about "first class" and "economic class". TVShow is something they have to do, because (they even admitted) if they would close the sat webshows would last max a couple of weeks. They are unrespectful versus fta viewers (not members) , that are always (less one, of course me, not a matter of money, I would never give them my personal data) potential customers. If ETVShow isn't able to stay fairly on the market, it has to close, we'll do a reason about that, we already have a couple of ideas to reconvert italian forum. And maybe for some molvanian people it would be a big chance to get a life outside ETVShow.
P.S. no one talked about "custom shows" experiment? Just 90€uros. Clips4Sale is cheaper. And even a real woman.

Bottom line: sorry if I was long.

for an answer I should add your first reaction to my post:

outside wrote:I remember models as Amy, Angelina, Claudia, Inez, Kristina, Natasha (the first Natasha), the list is very long. They made no differences.
There were girls who need time to perform, one example Brizeida.
But this is not Elmar case, that got naked at her first premium, so it was only a matter of money. But there is Mimi now, so no more profitable, she could be dumped at TV.


P.S. Rubbish is all your perpetual attempts of justification and indulgence to ETVShow, don't complain if most users think you staffers are puppets in ETVShow hands.

outside wrote:

Tarl_Cabot wrote:or maybe you could use the wastebasket for your rubbish list and remember that it took in the past often several shows or weeks until a model has stripped all.
seems like most forget this while thinking about the Good Old Days and expecting everything for free (again).

Disclaimer: this is not a personal attack to T_C, a moderator who I discuss with almost daily but I think in frank way.
I am interested at the sentence I signed in bold, because this basically was the ETVShow itself guideline (and this could lead users to take conclusions about this site staffers).

This deserves an appropriate reply, that led of course about some considerations of mine some posts below.
T_C could also add "over and over".
Is ETVShow a free to air TV channel?
So am I allowed to watch it for free? Since it is free and public have I the right to criticize?
Every free to air channel, erotic or not erotic has critics from viewers, and only ETVShow answers "you watch it for free, so just thank and shut the f*** up", maybe in some insults dressage as "grumpy children", "petty banter" and so on.
It doesn't work this way. Critics are always legitimate, maybe they forgot that free viewers are always potential customers.
So if they couldn't bear there are many people who watch TV for free and neither calls, just encrypt, as I said.
Maybe it is more profitable to ask 52 credits a week than ask a monthly fee for subscription, but at least they would avoid free watchers scum (because this what we are in their minds, I apologize for that word).
They would also invest in quality (real quality, meaning picture and so on, maybe HD, not pseudo artistic scripts from Aria or Julia), and maybe they would get more customers.
But till ETVShow would be free to air, sorry, but they have to handle such critics from free viewers.

This leads to bottom line: since they aren't able to get new customers, better squeeze the current ones, who would even praise even a premium with Kiara and Lilian, until last blood drop, and increase price of premium shows.
52 credits this week, 18 credits (last minute discount included) for "the name of Rose"only , neither Avatar in 3D was so expensive. Neither Anzhi Machakchala owner could support that.

P.S. since all critics are legitimate, this means critics to my post too.
Have a nice day.

you are complaining about Elmar and a matter of money and you mentioned several older or former models who are (according to you) different to Elmar.
so about the facts:
last night was Elmar's forth night show. she was topless in her first night show and also in her second night show. in the third night shows she was naked under the shower (twice iirc) and last night was her first real pussy show. so for sure not bad, slow or too late. I think she's much faster than the average of all etv hot models. vector has posted in the last weeks many vids including Carmen and iirc Carmen has needed several weeks or even month before she became a hot model.
in your list of different to Elmar models you have listed Kristina, too.
hmmm .... .... maybe I'm wrong but iirc Kristina was topless and nude for the first time


silence


drum roll


behind the white curtain in front of the webcam!

iirc I've spend most of my coins for free for the first etv web service to watch Alexis and Kristina behind the curtain because both haven't been in night shows so far.

you ask in your post below for your right to criticise the free fta shows and your right as a viewer but sorry, you and your black list comments are always and only about the webshows.
feel free to post about the fta shows (although I and my gotten education think that everyone should be thankful for things that are for free and nobody forces you to watch etv) but I think a post with some praise is more appropriate than your post with some more or less hidden critics about Elmar's former webshows.
of course the models do the webshows for money and for sure no models works at etv because she likes to strip and to talk all day or night. so they decide to do what and for which amount of money. so they decide to strip in the webshows because they are sure to earn some money while in the fta shows they cannot be sure to earn any money.
on the other side are viewers like you who say I don't spend money for etv because I'm not happy with the offered service and thus you keep your earnt money for yourself.
so it's all about money and as nearly all persons in this forum both sides are interested in getting/ keeping as much money as possible.
for sure etv cannot survive with offering only nude/ hot webshows but boring fta shows but also not with fta viewers who don't spend any money for the fta shows.

as we probably agree about the value of money we should think about the real life and blacklists. I think that every artist with concerts but no or nearly no tv shows is on your lists, too. or a Seria A club whose matches aren't shown fta or closed clubs that take some money from their members for the entry. I think we could create an endless list about this but in general it's always the same:
is your interest to see it, hear it, join it big enough to spend some money or not? so it's on you and only you.
you complain that you don't see some etv models and you create a blacklist that is more than just critics, it's an indirect insult. and you ask these models to show off for free. for a person who insults the models and don't want to spend his earnt money for working models and their shows.
looks strange, or? and for sure you wouldn't be happy if you are in the position of the models.

put Ivo & Ilia on any list and I'll sign it but show some respect for the models. for all models because all are working to keep the channel and it's fta shows alive.

I look at Tia, Kia or Mashiara and then I watch at Elmar and I wonder why should I spend my money and waste my time to follow this model in a Premium Show.
Elmar is pretty, has a nice body and two beautiful eyes, even if inappropriately covered by nerd’s glasses, but she is flat, still as a statue in front of the camera, without a spark.
Kia And Penelope tried to involve her, if in its place there was a dummy it would be the same.
A customer asked a striptease, very bad (even the fault of the usual director).
Of course, the blame for this low yield is not the model that, indeed, seems to have put effort.

The truth is that Elmar, and all the other new models, instead of being sacrificed on the altar of the web, to keep up the dilapidated hovel, should participate in the NS where they could:
learn to stand in front of a camera
thaw a little, learning how to interact with colleagues
learn to entertain clients
create a solid customer base
and, perhaps, have a little fun.

Otherwise these models will be other dissipated potential for ETV.

Tarl_Cabot wrote:or maybe you could use the wastebasket for your rubbish list and remember that it took in the past often several shows or weeks until a model has stripped all.
seems like most forget this while thinking about the Good Old Days and expecting everything for free (again).

Disclaimer: this is not a personal attack to T_C, a moderator who I discuss with almost daily but I think in frank way.
I am interested at the sentence I signed in bold, because this basically was the ETVShow itself guideline (and this could lead users to take conclusions about this site staffers).

This deserves an appropriate reply, that led of course about some considerations of mine some posts below.
T_C could also add "over and over".
Is ETVShow a free to air TV channel?
So am I allowed to watch it for free? Since it is free and public have I the right to criticize?
Every free to air channel, erotic or not erotic has critics from viewers, and only ETVShow answers "you watch it for free, so just thank and shut the f*** up", maybe in some insults dressage as "grumpy children", "petty banter" and so on.
It doesn't work this way. Critics are always legitimate, maybe they forgot that free viewers are always potential customers.
So if they couldn't bear there are many people who watch TV for free and neither calls, just encrypt, as I said.
Maybe it is more profitable to ask 52 credits a week than ask a monthly fee for subscription, but at least they would avoid free watchers scum (because this what we are in their minds, I apologize for that word).
They would also invest in quality (real quality, meaning picture and so on, maybe HD, not pseudo artistic scripts from Aria or Julia), and maybe they would get more customers.
But till ETVShow would be free to air, sorry, but they have to handle such critics from free viewers.

This leads to bottom line: since they aren't able to get new customers, better squeeze the current ones, who would even praise even a premium with Kiara and Lilian, until last blood drop, and increase price of premium shows.
52 credits this week, 18 credits (last minute discount included) for "the name of Rose"only , neither Avatar in 3D was so expensive. Neither Anzhi Machakchala owner could support that.

P.S. since all critics are legitimate, this means critics to my post too.
Have a nice day.

Even thanks to hundreds of this "marginal-payers" ETV is where now is.
Now they bet only on great-payers, but anyway IMHO, none has the right to complain or not only because he pays.
If someone, anyone, has something to say, he does. (or 1 credit needed?)
Maybe people should remember that a different opinion is not always a wrong opinion, is just different.

lucifer70 wrote:These people fall under the classification of "potential customers." Perhaps if the show would be better if the attention towards customers was real and the models were of a higher category, many of the "non-paying" would become "paying".

if they do this since years and add "don't pay any money to etv" to their posts they fall only under the classification of "constantly complainers".
you are writing about newby watchers while Watchers was writing about the longtime complainers who were (at least a few of them) minimum customers in the past and will never again become a paying customer.


@zxcv: please ask brudgon by PM about the idea & use of the Like button under the posts of others. ;)

space6969 wrote:No, the "friends" I was talking about don't pay for a show, they pay for a phone call with their "girlfriends".
Which is legitimate, of course, but not exactly for the benefit of the "none friends".

You hit the point

"Then there are Those Who just sit and watch the shows, some complaining in various forums, taking no active part in the shows, just looking at young women, probably in various stages of undress ..."

These people fall under the classification of "potential customers." Perhaps if the show would be better if the attention towards customers was real and the models were of a higher category, many of the "non-paying" would become "paying".
That is what happened a few years ago.

In the end, all customers who now pay, previously were not paying.

Slowfox wrote:regardless, we should not forget that those 'friends' are paying the show with their calls and sms, for the 'none friends' to see it for free

No, the "friends" I was talking about don't pay for a show, they pay for a phone call with their "girlfriends".
Which is legitimate, of course, but not exactly for the benefit of the "none friends".

Watcher wrote:This current discussion is fascinating .
But let's take a step back and look at the overall picture ...
There are some who happily contribute to the running of the shows, with their money and interaction. Now whether that interaction is with a 'true friend' or a 'paid friend' is immaterial, the interaction is real and keeps the participants happy.
Then there are those who just sit and watch the shows, some complaining in various forums, taking no active part in the shows, just looking at young women, probably in various stages of undress ...
Which do you think could be best classified by some as the weirdos?

Sure the formers, who focus about feet, balloons, shower in high heels, cheesy messages and so on, spending a lot of money.
The latter at least keep their bank account safe, and I think giving them neither a cent is the wisest thing.
But there is the weirdest one, of course you.

Watcher wrote:

Roar87 wrote:

Watcher wrote:This current discussion is fascinating .
But let's take a step back and look at the overall picture ...
There are some who happily contribute to the running of the shows, with their money and interaction. Now whether that interaction is with a 'true friend' or a 'paid friend' is immaterial, the interaction is real and keeps the participants happy.
Then there are those who just sit and watch the shows, some complaining in various forums, taking no active part in the shows, just looking at young women, probably in various stages of undress ...
Which do you think could be best classified by some as the weirdos?

Ehm... BOTH?!

A very interesting answer ...
So, in which category do you appear?
Or do we need another for 'weirdos' who only participate in forum discussions?

Oh no that is me !
Nowt weird about wanting to see a sexy lady, not sure etv was a good example though ?
Anyway I would not say it is weird to pay for these kinds of thing I will say IMHO it is sad thing that a human being needs to pay and not meet
in real life to forge a friendship.
I like others did send sms for wishes that were never acknowledged never mind fulfilled in the past and then became an addicted watcher, now just the 'weirdo' who visits this forum
Good topic though

Roar87 wrote:

Watcher wrote:This current discussion is fascinating .
But let's take a step back and look at the overall picture ...
There are some who happily contribute to the running of the shows, with their money and interaction. Now whether that interaction is with a 'true friend' or a 'paid friend' is immaterial, the interaction is real and keeps the participants happy.
Then there are those who just sit and watch the shows, some complaining in various forums, taking no active part in the shows, just looking at young women, probably in various stages of undress ...
Which do you think could be best classified by some as the weirdos?

Ehm... BOTH?!

A very interesting answer ...
So, in which category do you appear?
Or do we need another for 'weirdos' who only participate in forum discussions?

outside wrote:Really bad there's nobody spending his money to ask the girls for the shows you want to see.
Hint: The phone number is regularly shown on the screen
I understand, you have been member since 2010, you don't know what was the real eUrotic.

Well, I couldn't spare that comment as you were complaining about the "prince charmings".
I'm watching Astra, there's no arabic advertising, they regularly show their own dial-in and SMS numbers (also for Italy). Maybe it's different on Hotbird.
I watch E(urotic)TV a bit longer than I'm registered here, but also in the past days there were regularly bad cuts and camera operation and sometimes even boring shows. These just don't appear in the videos, and maybe the average level was a bit higher. But I wouldn't exclude self-deception. In the past even the future was better
The biggest difference for me is the music followed by the number of girls doing hot night shows, that are IMHO the real problems nowadays.
I'm lucky I like most of the current nightshow girls, but who doesn't has drawn the short straw.

And as sad as it is, their business is not broadcasting TV program but receiving calls and SMS, if that worked without TV broadcast they wouldn't pay for 2 satellite licenses.
False, since their first incoming source isn't calls-sms amount, but telephone numbers advertising. Not their own numbers, but recorded services for arabic people, not produced on their own.

OK, assuming you are right that's their main income anyway the shows itself weren't more important than under my assumption.
Presumably it's mixed calculation, each item itself isn't enough, therefor they offer different service for different clientele.

Well, that's the business. The people sending the SMS seem to like that.
Are you sure? Always less. Have you ever taken a look at bellerophon stats?

No doubt it's less successful than in the past, but if it didn't still have enough revenue they could save money and have less girls in the shows, to advertise their arabic services and their web shows 2 or 3 girls and one camera were enough and they wouldn't necessarily need to broadcast on Astra.

Regards
Joker

[edit:typo, added than]

Watcher wrote:This current discussion is fascinating .
But let's take a step back and look at the overall picture ...
There are some who happily contribute to the running of the shows, with their money and interaction. Now whether that interaction is with a 'true friend' or a 'paid friend' is immaterial, the interaction is real and keeps the participants happy.
Then there are those who just sit and watch the shows, some complaining in various forums, taking no active part in the shows, just looking at young women, probably in various stages of undress ...
Which do you think could be best classified by some as the weirdos?

Ehm... BOTH?!

This current discussion is fascinating .
But let's take a step back and look at the overall picture ...
There are some who happily contribute to the running of the shows, with their money and interaction. Now whether that interaction is with a 'true friend' or a 'paid friend' is immaterial, the interaction is real and keeps the participants happy.
Then there are those who just sit and watch the shows, some complaining in various forums, taking no active part in the shows, just looking at young women, probably in various stages of undress ...
Which do you think could be best classified by some as the weirdos?