ETV Gold

Please, compared to 2009 2010 was much better, but there is not that much difference between 2010 with 2011, the only difference is that we are spoiled a bit unlike after 2009 thi is why 2010 feels better. If you can still follow me tossing al these numbers (sorry)

pepers wrote:

HvB wrote:what did change for the viewers, that didn't change for the gold members too?

I do not say the shows and the program is bad only for normal viewers, it's the same bad even for the Gold members. So I would describe it more as a lost - lost situation.
I do not want to complain only, there are also some bright moments in the shows, but generally the whole year 2011 is bad. If you compare the qualities of the shows last year and this year, you have to agree with me. And the main reason is in my opinion the "Goldies" project, because the viewers are not on the first place anymore. Now all the effort from etv managers goes only to this project and everything else (models hiring, show directing, liveshows ideas etc) is going on the second road and nobody cares about the viewers.
It's the same situation like in the year 2009, when there was the "USA adventure" project on the first place and everything else was unimportant. The viewers were the victims and the same viewers are the victims even now.That's why I do not like this Goldies strategy.

About the shedule. The shedule was already once removed and later the infos from the shedule were offered via paid telephone calls. When I was arguing on the official forum if this is another "money for nothing" strategy and why isn't such a simple thing offered for free on the webside, the etv admin gave me an answer, that they always wanted to give it for free, but there was some technical problems, so they had to remove it. Btw, I was quite surprised by his answer because it was totaly different reason than the reason given by Mr. Ressel here on the chat. And If I remember well, you HVB were also involved in this discussion and you were also surprised. Anyway, second day the shedule was offered for free again and it was for free until the new "money for nothing Goldies project" appeared.

Yep, the reasoning given on the tev forum was not correct. The Admin either didn't know the reason or didn't want to reveal it. Was not very clever.

What do you mean with 'the quality of the show'?
I don't know your definition of quality for that.
In my opinion lately there have been some quite good shows, more than usual.
But there have been quite some awful shows throughout the year, but that's not different than any year before.

HvB wrote:what did change for the viewers, that didn't change for the gold members too?

I do not say the shows and the program is bad only for normal viewers, it's the same bad even for the Gold members. So I would describe it more as a lost - lost situation.
I do not want to complain only, there are also some bright moments in the shows, but generally the whole year 2011 is bad. If you compare the qualities of the shows last year and this year, you have to agree with me. And the main reason is in my opinion the "Goldies" project, because the viewers are not on the first place anymore. Now all the effort from etv managers goes only to this project and everything else (models hiring, show directing, liveshows ideas etc) is going on the second road and nobody cares about the viewers.
It's the same situation like in the year 2009, when there was the "USA adventure" project on the first place and everything else was unimportant. The viewers were the victims and the same viewers are the victims even now.That's why I do not like this Goldies strategy.

About the shedule. The shedule was already once removed and later the infos from the shedule were offered via paid telephone calls. When I was arguing on the official forum if this is another "money for nothing" strategy and why isn't such a simple thing offered for free on the webside, the etv admin gave me an answer, that they always wanted to give it for free, but there was some technical problems, so they had to remove it. Btw, I was quite surprised by his answer because it was totaly different reason than the reason given by Mr. Ressel here on the chat. And If I remember well, you HVB were also involved in this discussion and you were also surprised. Anyway, second day the shedule was back and offered for free again. And it was for free until the new "money for nothing Goldies project" appeared.

It's clear now. The mistake was to offer the better quality stream to free viewers at all.
Conclusion: no more gimmicks for them. Better leave the equipment unused until it's needed again. Will suggest like that in the future.

The problem isn't offering something, the problem is taking it away, and at the same time (I can accord you this) having a different one - but similar in function - to GM.

If you want some comparison, take a look at what happened to Sony in April: they took away from users the possibility of installing an alternative operating system (Linux, mostly) on their Playstation 3 devices and fined an hacker who had developed a jailbreaking device for the same console. Their entire online network got cracked and went down for a lot of time, credit card data was stolen and used fraudolently, personal information was gathered and sold abusively, all in all, a huge dent in Sony's image and credibility.
All because they didn't want users to be able to mount Linux anymore.

Of course ETV works on a much smaller scale, and I am in no way hoping for such an outcome, at all, but still if I were you, I would stop for a second and think a while about those viewers (me included) who call or send an SMS every once in a while, because they don't want to/they can't afford to/they don't feel like doing more. If you ask me, those viewers deserve the exact same respect of those who spend half a worker's monthly salary every week (except, of course, more convenient fares for those last people - that is an advantage, a good offer and I repeat, I'll never criticize it in itself).

P.S.: this is (for today) my last post here so whatever answer from my part will have to wait until tomorrow morning at least!

Chris26 wrote:

HvB wrote:Before gold there have been two streams and one is now needed for the new service, I think you will calculate yourself how many would be left.
For gold they introduced a new stream (so much for the fact) , so gold doesn't change the situation above at all.

As you know the schedule has been removed for extensive periods before. Explanation was given by Franz in the site chat and I think the search should bring up the transcript posted by Mauro.

So, let me just understand... what is this new stream for Gold members? An higher-quality stream?
Sounds oddly familiar for some reason...

I can only hope that this boasted "new service" is something that will be available indiscriminately to all viewers, not only Gold members, otherwise you can clearly understand that all these castles in Spain will just crumble to dust.

EDIT: sorry for editing, do I also need to remind you that, when the HQ stream was available to all, it was periodically turned into "Gold members only" during photosession shows?
And no, I'm not saying that I'm against what (whatever) Gold members can see behind that curtain, I'm saying that it would have been a little less irritating to have a new stream solely dedicated to this.
After all, 3 streams shouldn't be a problem - they're setting them up now as we speak, right?

History lesson:
at some point in time etv introduced a low quality webstream and a high quality (I'm using the names they gave the streams, not my opinion about the real quality) stream for etvgirl. After various formats have been tested on etvgirl, the HQ stream was added to the LQ stream for free view. Now they need this stream again for the new project, so the lq stream that was always planned for free viewing is left. The mistake they made was offering the HQ stream while it wasn't used for it's original purposes. Nice service for the customers I'd think, but obviously everybody thinks now that they have a right on this stream ...
For gold a new even better stream was introduced as they were well aware that they would need the hq stream for another project in due time.
So I wouldn't wonder if they use the new better stream for the new project and use the originally planned HQ for gold. If that happens, the gold members are the only ones that lost in that game.
The free users got for nearly a year the gift of a hq stream, that was never planned for them.
From all the complaints it's obvious that they never ever again should offer something additionally to free users, because the resources are available.

HvB wrote:Before gold there have been two streams and one is now needed for the new service, I think you will calculate yourself how many would be left.
For gold they introduced a new stream (so much for the fact) , so gold doesn't change the situation above at all.

As you know the schedule has been removed for extensive periods before. Explanation was given by Franz in the site chat and I think the search should bring up the transcript posted by Mauro.

So, let me just understand... what is this new stream for Gold members? An higher-quality stream?
Sounds oddly familiar for some reason...

I can only hope that this boasted "new service" is something that will be available indiscriminately to all viewers, not only Gold members, otherwise you can clearly understand that all these castles in Spain will just crumble to dust.

EDIT: sorry for editing, do I also need to remind you that, when the HQ stream was available to all, it was periodically turned into "Gold members only" during photosession shows?
And no, I'm not saying that I'm against what (whatever) Gold members can see behind that curtain, I'm saying that it would have been a little less irritating to have a new stream solely dedicated to this.
After all, 3 streams shouldn't be a problem - they're setting them up now as we speak, right?

Chris26 wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm not accepting a "It would be gone anyway" as an argumentation.
I'm only saying that, from an outside point of view, we had 2 streams, and for the sake of this discussion let's call them a LQ and a HQ one. Now we have one (obviously the LQ one) and the HQ one (better, HD, whatever you want) is for Gold members only. This is a fact.

If you want to keep saying that the HQ stream "would be gone anyway" (and why? Do pray tell), that the schedule would be gone anyway (and again, why? What would they gain from it?, be my guest, but I'm not accepting this as an explanation.

Before gold there have been two streams and one is now needed for the new service, I think you will calculate yourself how many would be left.
For gold they introduced a new stream (so much for the fact) , so gold doesn't change the situation above at all.

As you know the schedule has been removed for extensive periods before. Explanation was given by Franz in the site chat and I think the search should bring up the transcript posted by Mauro.

I'm sorry, but I'm not accepting a "It would be gone anyway" as an argumentation.
I'm only saying that, from an outside point of view, we had 2 streams, and for the sake of this discussion let's call them a LQ and a HQ one. Now we have one (obviously the LQ one) and the HQ one (better, HD, whatever you want) is for Gold members only. This is a fact.

If you want to keep saying that the HQ stream "would be gone anyway" (and why? Do pray tell), that the schedule would be gone anyway (and again, why? What would they gain from it?, be my guest, but I'm not accepting this as an explanation.

pepers wrote:

HvB wrote:I think it's more a win-win situation

hmmm.. A few rich Gold members (the last discussing number here was 17) who are pleased by etv for every cost (althought none of the members actualy cares about the quality of the program and services) against a thousands of a normal viewers who are in the year 2011 constantly ignored and who are day after day more and more angry, because the channel is less and less watchable.
I don't think it's a win - win situation.

what did change for the viewers, that didn't change for the gold members too?

pepers wrote:About the streams I am a little confused by your arguments.There was two streams for free, one low and one better quality (I do not say HQ or HD, it was just better). The current situation is, that there is only the low quality offered for free and the better quality is guaranteed for the Goldies. So how can you say there is no change for the free viewers?
If there is another stream planned for free, it's only good (why there is no official info?), but it doesn't change anything about the fact, that the free viewers can currently watch only one poor quality stream.

I said one stream would be gone now anyway without the additional stream for the gold members changing anything neither positive nor negative for the free viewers.
Everything that happens would happen the same way without gold.
So the argumentation that gold has something to do with it is wrong.
I don't deny that there is only a poor stream left on the hp and I don't say I'm completely satisfied with all shows (but that was always the same). I just cant stand an obviously fals argumentation, as for the gold service an additional stream was prepared so that nothing changed for the free viewers (exception is the photoshow, where the hq stream is used for the behind the curtain cam).

HvB wrote:I think it's more a win-win situation

hmmm.. A few rich Gold members (the last discussing number here was 17) who are pleased by etv for every cost (althought none of the members actualy cares about the quality of the program and services) against a thousands of a normal viewers who are in the year 2011 constantly ignored and who are day after day more and more angry, because the channel is less and less watchable.
I don't think it's a win - win situation.

About the streams I am a little confused by your arguments.There was two streams for free, one low and one better quality (I do not say HQ or HD, it was just better). The current situation is, that there is only the low quality offered for free and the better quality is guaranteed for the Goldies. So how can you say there is no change for the free viewers?
If there is another stream planned for free, it's only good (why there is no official info?), but it doesn't change anything about the fact, that the free viewers can currently watch only one poor quality stream.

Tarl_Cabot wrote:

JohnF wrote:Yes, it's true. And we see their pathetic efforts with much fun.

I hope you'll enjoy your fun if you've been successful with stopping everyone from Italy.
I doubt that etv would improve any service for italian callers if nobody from italy calls.
To stop people calling will stop etv doing anything for italian callers.
So enjoy your fun. Your win would be a bigger loose for yourself.

Roar87 wrote:My opinion:
Now etv is trying to keep her loyal members and to sqeeze them out more money, forgetting to search new callers and to keep the ones that calls sometimes. I hope that one or more of these loyal members are a millionaire.

raising the advertisement for italian callers is a search for new callers, or?

Raise the advertisment for italian but offer rubbish is a search for new callers?
example: Etv it's a train.
We pay the tikets like the others for a 2° class trip, but they put us in the coach without seats, without roof and it's raining... while in the other coach for the 2° class there are seats and roof.
After the trip I think is: "What a bad service..."
The point is: we don't want the private forum, the cam behind the curtains or something like that, we ask the same respect that they give to other callers and other sms and someone who speak our language. I think that I'm not asking the moon. But if they continue to give us service like that after a while people are not stupid and stop call.


I send an e-mail few days ago, a really simple and gentle e-mail (if you want I'll send you PM) where I make them notice that the spot of the photosession show made by Gigi for Italian viewers is incomprehensible. But because I want to help them and not only complain, I translate the speach from Gigi's language to Italian so they can record another message that italians can understand. And also I tried to make another speach more easy and impressive. I was trying to help them to improve their service to us.
What was the answer?
We put the italian moderators for you, if they are a problem, we can cut them so, no service for you.

I was without words...

HvB wrote:

Roar87 wrote:My opinion:
Now etv is trying to keep her loyal members and to sqeeze them out more money, forgetting to search new callers and to keep the ones that calls sometimes. I hope that one or more of these loyal members are a millionaire.

I think it's more a win-win situation
callers: for the same amount at least double (landline) or nearly 3 times (mobile) the call time (for German callers)
etv: no 50% (landline) to 66% (mobile) of the amount sacked in by the telco providers.
So with the same amount of money both sides win. Well, if that's bad, I don't know what's good.

I'm not speaking about the offer for the gold members. The offer it's good, really good. It's cheaper for us and better for them.
I'm speaking about the quality of their service. If you treat like rubbish the normal callers, they will never become a Gold member. If you don't make more people addicted (because etv it's a drug for many of us and I'm the first) with the time you'll lose the normal caller and etv will remain only with the gold members and no one else.

Tarl_Cabot wrote:Your win would be a bigger loose for yourself.

And we see with same fun your pathetic efforts to justify ETV in every situation.

Tarl_Cabot wrote:I hope you'll enjoy your fun if you've been successful with stopping everyone from Italy.
I doubt that etv would improve any service for italian callers if nobody from italy calls.
To stop people calling will stop etv doing anything for italian callers.
So enjoy your fun. Your win would be a bigger loose for yourself.

There is, however, a slight little problem with this.
Take yesterday: Vicky directing. An Italian request for a strip by Kate. What did he get? An unhooked bra.
And then, by magic, either a gold member or a long-time caller asks for a strip, and he almost gets a fullstrip, or a fullstrip without mushi as in Kate's style.

Take Michelle's next-to-last show (not yesterday but Wednesday, I believe): italian strip request for her, not even an unhooked bra.
And then, by magic, either a gold member or a long-time (can we talk about "long-time" with Michelle?) caller makes the same request, and the bra falls.

Or take earlier shows, when the moderator told an Italian caller that with Vicky directing, showershows could only be requested by German viewers...
Or take Italian messages shown on the screen, which (except some by Aria), are not Italian language at all.

Maybe it's not us... what do you think?